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Hi, I'm Mike Dilke, and you're listening to the RelaxBack UK Show, the show that explores all kinds of health topics relevant to you, your family, and your friends. Each week, I talk to expert guests from a range of backgrounds to inform and entertain you. So please do join the RelaxBack UK family, and stay tuned.

Hi, and thank you for joining the RelaxBack UK Show. This week, I chat with Dr. Roopy from Doctor's Kitchen.

The number of people who are eating ultra-processed foods unbeknownst to them was shocking. Cereals, because of the heart health label. Sandwiches, because it was whole grain. Um, healthier baked chips, because it didn't have as much oil in. These are all ultra-processed foods that are lacking in key nutrients.

The topic is our diet, what it might be lacking, specifically fiber, and then what to do about it. So please do join me for a great show. Thank you.

This show is cool.

Dr. Roopy is a GP in the NHS, and also refers to himself as a nutritionist. Now, being a GP and a nutritionist I think is a pretty rare combination, so my first question to him was, how did that come about?

So my nutrition journey really started when I became a junior doctor, um, over 15 years ago. So I suffered a heart condition, something called atrial fibrillation, and, uh, that's what led me down the route of really looking at my diet and lifestyle before I entertained having a more aggressive procedure. And the more I learned about diet and nutrition, the more I realized how much of a role it features in so many people's health issues, whether we're talking about obesity, like we are today, or, uh, type 2 diabetes, poor metabolic health. But also things like mental wellbeing, women's health, menopause. I mean, there's just... In- nutrition intersects with every medical specialty, um, that I've had the privilege of working in. And I trained as a general practitioner, and then I did A&E and ITU. Um, came back from Australia, and I started, uh, the Doctor's Kitchen, which is a platform to educate people about the beauty of food and the medicinal effects of eating well. Um, and I did a master's in nutrition at University of Surrey, uh, whilst I was working,

uh, at the same time. So yeah, it was a-

That, that was gonna be my next question, actually. Tell us your qualifications. And are you registered as a nutritionist?

Yeah. So I, uh, I've done a master's in nutrition. I've done my dissertation, all the rest of it. I'm not with the AFN, if that's what you're asking. But, uh, I think partly with my medical, uh, career and, you know, the analytical approach I've taken with everything, um, I feel confident about, uh, uh, nutrition. And it's, like, my passion as well. It's what we talk about all day, every day, here with the research team-

Right

... and the podcast as well.

It, it, it was actually what I was asking. Not 'cause I was trying to be kind of a smart-arse. But it's just that-

No, it's all good

... no, I'm, I'm, I'm ki- I'm kind of making a serious point here.

A, a, a, a GP, a doctor, is a protected title. Like, if you said you were a GP and you weren't, you'd be in serious trouble.

Yeah.

Now, a nutritionist is not a protected title. So I could call myself a nutritionist this afternoon and charge people for, to take, uh, give them my advice. They'd be bonkers to take it. So if, if you are talking to a nutritionist, it, it's probably a good idea to check on a register somewhere to see if they are registered.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. Uh, same thing with, um, uh, dieticians. Um, there's a whole bunch of different, uh-

Well, dietician is a protected title.

It, it is.

Nutritionist is not.

Yeah, yeah. It, but in, in America, um, particularly, and because we live in a global society now where people can call themself anything, um, I think it's really important to learn about some of the credentials and the way in which people would describe themselves, uh, online, and, and checking whether there are relevant bodies that can, can regulate that as well.

Yeah. Good. All right. On, on with the topic in hand. Thank you for that. Um,

we are, we are getting fatter. Kind of everybody, uh, knows that. Um, but at, kind of at, at the top of this news advisory, there's one particularly sort of alarming fat stat.

What, what is the fat stat that, uh, is sort of the, the headline here?

Well, the headline is, you know, 71% of adults could be overweight by 2040. Um, and the sharpest rise is, you know, the poorest communities. But already we do have a real issue with obesity and people being overweight. In fact, it's, uh, two-thirds of, of adults already, uh, are overweight, uh, or obese. And the messaging, particularly from the government, has been around restriction. You know, not having too much sugar.

Mm-hmm.

Not h- having too many calories and, and not having, uh, as much fat. And all these are very important, obviously. These are still part of the messaging that we should all be aware of. But what I think is distinctly lacking is the contribution of whole foods-

Yeah

... particularly nuts, seeds, legumes-

We're gonna-

... whole grains

... we're gonna talk about... I wanna talk, uh, pick your brains on what we can do about it, uh, uh, uh, but in a moment or two. 'Cause I just wanna home in a bit on the messaging, okay? So we've got, at, at the top of this, poor diet is killing more people in the UK than smoking. All right, now that's quite a sweeping statement. Where, where, where does that come from? Because I've got a, a, a couple of questions about that. Where, where does that statement come from?

Well, if you look at the, the Global Burden of Disease studies, um, and, and these were published a number of years ago, we know that poor diet is the leading cause of, uh, of disease and mortality, uh, and morbidity globally. We've known this for a long time now, but I don't think the attention is being given to it in a way that I would like to see, and I know, uh, other people would like to see, in the nutrition industry.

Right.

Because, uh, e- even though we know that what we, we shouldn't be eating, the biggest issue is what we're not eating, and we're not, and, and as I was-... gonna say, and I'll, I'll make this point very quickly here so we can go into it a bit later. But nuts, seeds, whole grains, legumes, things that contribute fiber, which is hugely lacking in our diet. In fact, 96% of people, according to the latest nutrition and diet survey, do not consume the 30 grams of fiber per day, which is pretty shocking. It averages around 15 to 18 grams. There's a long way to go. Um, and if that alone, if we were to plug that nutritional gap, could lead to thousands of lives being saved in the UK alone per year. And so-

All right

... th- this idea around diet being, uh, as harmful or poor diet being as harmful as smoking sounds really shocking and sensationalist, but it is true. It is true, unfortunately.

Yeah. Well, well, that, so I, I read that. I, I, that, that was the word that came into my mind, sensationalist. And I, I thought, hang on a moment, you know, actually not so many people smoke, and that has a, a very high degree of risk with it. Everybody eats, and that has a low degree of risk from it. So the, the two aren't really comparable c- you know, 'cause you're talking doing, a few people doing something that's really high risk and everybody doing something that's kinda low risk. So i- i, I mean, it is, it is a headline designed to make people worry and sit up. But I, I, I was just thinking-

I, I, I take-

... hmm, is it really fair?

... I take your point. We're, we're... No, no, it's a, it's a fair point. And I think the, the idea that we are doing something that is low risk, uh, I think is, is possible for most people. But the, the issue is most people are eating a poor diet that is really, really risky.

Yeah.

And we don't equate the two. Uh, and I take your point, you know, in the same way I don't feel like we should be banning all foods or the government should step in and say, "You can't have your french fries and you can't have your biscuits." I'm, I'm not a believer of that. I, but whereas I do think they should be intervening with smoking, because we can reasonably say smoking has no benefits, whereas food is so much more than just nutrient value. It's culture, it's heritage, et cetera.

Yeah.

So I, I th- I think it's... Y- you're right. Like, when we equate the two, uh, in a headline, it can feel a bit sensationalist, but I feel sometimes we need to utilize some of these marketing strategies to get the message across.

Nothing wrong with a bit of sensationalism occasionally, yeah.

Yeah. We need-

But-

... to get the message across. And, and-

Yeah

... you know, one of the things that I really want listeners to get away from this is that there is so much power in our plates, and if we make better decisions on a day-to-day basis, like increasing nut, seed, dried fruit consumption, as well as whole grains and legumes and all the good stuff, then it can meaningfully change their risk of chronic illnesses that are crippling, you know, our health systems like the NHS.

Well, let, let's, let's get onto that, because you, f- you must be living, like, in a cave somewhere and have no devices, no phone, no TV, don't read any newspapers, if you don't kind of know what a good diet is shortly, s- surely. 'Cause, you know, what we need to do, we need to eat healthily, do a bit of exercise, and sleep well. And I'm, I, I'm...

Okay, I'm pretty much convinced everyone in the UK must know that. So the problem is not telling us what to do, uh, potentially. It's, it's because

we don't do it. We ignore it. Is, is, is that the issue? Or you were hinting at something a little more than that, I think.

I, I would say, um, I can see why people m- might have that understanding. And, and look, Mike, we, we mo- we both work in health and, uh, health communication, so for us it seems really obvious, but I really do feel like we work in a bubble. So when I was working full-time as an NHS GP, the number of people that I would see across from my desk who would tell me that they eat a healthy diet, uh, completely, you know, honestly and earnestly. And when we actually dig in, and I used to ask five questions, "What do you eat for breakfast, lunch, dinner? What do you snack on? What do you drink?" Five questions, and I get a snapshot of what their diet is from the day before. It gives me a general idea of, like, what they're likely to be eating. The number of people who are eating ultra-processed foods unbeknownst to them was shocking. Cereals, because of the heart health label. Sandwiches, because it was whole grain. Um, healthier baked chips, because it didn't have as much oil in. These are all ultra-processed foods that are lacking in key nutrients. Whereas if they were to change just a couple of other things, and this is something I've, I've got a lot of experience in, just giving these little health hacks, a handful of nuts and seeds as, as an example. Just 25 grams, super cheap. This can improve the amount of fiber you're consuming, the amount of nutrients in the way of vitamin E and magnesium, both of which are quite lacking in people's diets. And we have evidence to demonstrate that this can meaningfully reduce their risk of cardiovascular disease and metabolic health, as demonstrated by multiple studies like the PREDI-MED one, but also meta-analyses of these studies where they increase healthy fats in their diet. So it's simple things like that that I don't think people actually grasp, a- even if they are motivated to do so. And th- and there is actually research where if people were told that nuts and seeds were part of the 5 a Day campaign, which is what, you know, what we're talking about, uh, uh-

Mm-hmm

... uh, at a much broader level today. This, this, uh, white paper that was delivered to Parliament by Whitworths trying to inc- get, uh, the government to include nuts, seeds, and dried fruit as part of the 5 a Day. If people were aware or were told that nuts and seeds were part of the 5 a Day, 63% of them say that they would be more likely to add them if they were recognized as part of the 5 a Day. So there is a messaging component to this as well that I think we should be a lot more enthusiastic about.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Um, I, yeah, I g- I guess I do try and eat nuts and stuff like that. I certainly try and eat fiber. But it, it, I don't certainly have a handful of nuts every day. Um, but let-As far as the fiber thing, uh, y- so you're kinda saying if we all eat a bit more fiber, we're less likely to be, uh, overweight.

What, what's the... This is probably an unfair question, but I'll ask it anyway. What's the process? What makes that happen? Is it because we're just all pooing a bit more? Surely not.

Okay, uh, let's, let's go through fiber 101 as, as... 'cause we could do-

Yes

... a whole podcast on this. So, so fiber is, like, this incredible, uh, multi-tool, if you like. And fiber's not just one thing. Most people equate it with All-Bran or, you know, like a, a, a refined cereal. Fiber is multiple different things. It is a complex carbohydrate. When you consume it, you don't actually absorb it. It is not for you. It is purely for your microbes, the trillions of microbes that live in and around your body, largely concentrated in the colon. And what these microbes do is they break it down, they create metabolites that can improve the health of your, uh, your gut cells, gives y- gives them energy, reduces inflammation, can lower cholesterol as well via very well-recognized pathways. This has a knock-on effect on your mood, has a knock-on effect on your, uh, cardiovascular risk profile, your, uh, ability to regulate sugar. It is pretty amazing what just fiber alone or increasing fiber from whole foods, um, I wanna point out, can do. And this is where, you know, w- we referred to the global burden of disease study earlier. J- Eight out of the, the issues w- with the, the top 10, uh, reasons were actually related to a lack of ingredients in our diet, which all happen to have lots of fiber in whole grains, legumes, uh, nuts, seeds, and, and fruit. Um, so it does sound, again, a bit sensational and a bit fantastical, but fiber alone, as long as it's coming from whole foods, can have a meaningful impact on your overall-

Okay

... wellbeing. And just a handful of nuts and seeds, so 25 grams, has around eight grams of fiber, depending on what nut or seed you're talking about. And so th- this is something could l- that could literally plug that gap that we see in the latest statistics looking at fiber consumption in the UK.

Let- let's explore. You say fiber from whole foods. Uh, what... So what does that mean, as opposed to fiber from whatever else?

Yeah. So I mean, you might have seen lots of companies adding fiber to sodas and ex- cereal in the way of, like, refined powders and all that kinda stuff. So when I thi- I say whole foods, I mean as minimally processed as possible, one that actually looks like the original food.

F-

Fruit is a fantastic example of that. Instead of eating a, a, a pear puree or a pear juice, you're having the pear. Uh-

So is the fiber different? Does what-

The fiber has been stripped out of a juice, uh, and it has been mulched with- in a smoothie.

Yeah.

Um, but when you're consuming it as part of the whole food, you're getting that rich matrix of food that produces the effects that we're looking for in the gut. But it also comes packaged with things like polyphenols and other micronutrients as well that are otherwise refined out in the juice. So even though they are the same ingredient, the way in which you consume it and the way in which it's p- it, it's, uh, presented to you and, and your microbes has a massive difference, and that's something called the, the food matrix.

Okay. All right. Um, you, you spoke a, a couple of things about cardiovascular disease, and in fact, in the press release, it talks about cardiovascular disease, uh, and also, um, diabetes, type 2 diabetes. And it gives some, uh, amounts, some s- uh, percentages, actually. And I think you, you, you mentioned one earlier. A 50%, uh... Was it a f- f- um,

can reduce cardiovascular disease risk by as much as 50%.

So, so if you look at the meta-analysis, uh, of nuts and seeds consumption against, uh, things like cardiovascular disease and metabolic he- and other chronic, uh, illnesses, a small daily portion of nuts can reduce cardiovascular disease by up to 25% and meaningfully reduce things like cholesterol, improve metabolic health. There are other mechanisms at play as well.

Mm.

Inflammation is a really big one that I don't think gets as much, uh, uh, press as it, as it should do, 'cause inflammation is sort of this background process that can drive, uh, chronic disease. And what's so special about nuts and seeds in, in general, and you can get obviously healthy fats from other sources like fish as well, but they contain monounsaturated fatty acids. They contain these short-chain omega-3 fatty acids as well that you find in chia and walnuts, and those can lower inflammation. And if you lower all these things, you package all these things together from whole foods, but particularly nuts and seeds, this is how you get these pretty profound effects on, on cardiovascular risk.

Yeah.

Um-

Okay.

So yeah.

I, I, I was actually gonna ask you about the presentation of, of the stats actually, 'cause 50% or 25% sounds massive. But what I, what I kind of admit I like, I like absolute figures. 'Cause if you're talking about 100,000 people, and the chances of getting a heart attack, you know, you've got four people in those 100,000 people, and it actually goes up to six people-

Yeah

... you know, some people might be willing to take the risk. But 50% sounds like a lot. So-

Yeah

... what are the, what are the absolute figures?

Yeah. I mean, if you were to apply, uh, the global, global burden of disease data onto UK cardiovascular mortality statistics, we're looking at a figure of around 15 to 20,000, uh, uh, lives saved per year. Um, so this is all, like, modeling so that, you know, be... There isn't a peer-reviewed paper on the exact number of lives saved, but if you apply these sort of statistical models, this is the number that we're looking at. And at a public health level, it's significant. It's really, really important. And I think, you know, if someone is listening to this and thinking, uh, you know, "I'd like to try this," you can even have a conversation with your own practitioner, your own GP, someone who's probably checking your bloods, in particular, your lipoprotein profiles, your cholesterol, uh, levels, and actually start including things yourself. You know-

That, that is so relevant for me, actually. I, I just got a message from my GP, 'cause I had a blood test last week, saying, "Give us a call."

Yeah. Right, yeah. Yes, it's the worst text that a GP can, uh-

Yes.

Yeah. When, when they're asking you to come in with all our, our waiting lists. But, you know, uh, just a, a handful, 25 grams of, of nuts or seeds, take your pick, it doesn't really matter which ones, can actually move your numbers in the positive direction. And, and, and this is why I'm, I'm so passionate about it being part of the Fiber a Day campaign, because we are... we're sat on this information, and it should be shared with as many people as possible. And I think if, you know... if you ask most people on the street about nuts and seeds, they probably think it's calorific and they should avoid them, whereas actually they are nutrient powerhouses with all these different micronutrient, uh, benefits, but also the benefits to your, your digestive health and your microbes as well that I don't think is as common knowledge.

No. Okay. Let's get into some detail of how much we should be eating. I'm talking grams here, okay?

Yeah.

Uh, how many grams of, of, of fiber a day should we be eating?

A minimum should be 30 grams. A minimum.

Okay.

So the current guidelines are for 30 grams for, to aim for, but I think that should be a rock bottom. We are evolved and we have evolved to consume upwards of 50 grams, and one of the best ways in which you can increase your fiber per day is via legumes. So pulses, um, things like chickpeas, black beans, um-

Lentils

... white beans, cowpeas. Like, all the traditional heritage beans and peas that we have sort of lost favor for in the UK. Like, we, we grow some incredible stuff in the UK. We should really be making, uh, a lot more sort of noise around those. Um, nuts and seeds obviously are, like, one of the, the fiber powerhouses as well. And again, just a handful a day can be really effective at moving the needle on those. But whole grains-

So could-

Yeah.

Uh, say if we... You're saying legumes, okay. Say if we have a, I don't know, a serving of beans, some sort of beans. French beans.

Yeah.

Uh, so, you know, we're having dinner and you've got some beans on the side.

Is that enough? Like, half a cup of these things, or, like-

A, a, a half can of beans, which is about 150 grams or so, w- can give you a- around half of your-

That's a lot of beans

... uh, total fiber. It's a lot. It-

Not-

Well, I mean-

Not many people will have that much, will they?

150 grams is, uh, like a very small bowl for... Exactly. And n- maybe not a lot of people are, are actually consuming that, but-

That's the... Yeah, that's... I guess that's the problem.

I mean... Yeah, yeah. And, and, you know, it doesn't have to be in one sitting. It could be across two different, um, uh, meals. And-

Yeah

... you know, if you're having, let's say, like, a light salad, it's summer right now. Like, adding a, a can of chickpeas and then topping it with some walnuts, you know, is a, is a way of getting upwards of 15 grams of fiber in just one meal. So-

Right. And we're aiming for 30, so that, you know.

Exactly, yeah. And I mean, I, I, I'm a big proponent of savory breakfasts for this reason. Instead of having a refined cereal or a sugary croissant or pastry in the morning, you know, treat it like another main meal. Treat it like an opportunity to feed your microbes what they actually want, to feed your body what it's craving. And it's these nutrients that we find in, in these powerful, um, uh, foods that, that w- we should all be consuming more of.

How, how mu- What about a bowl of porridge? That f- that feels like it should be very fibrous to me.

A bowl of porridge can be. The issue with, uh, oats, is that, uh, on their own they can be quite starchy, and for some people that actually might lead to a bit of a sugar rollercoaster. But oats, especially the whole rolled jumbo oats, are phenomenal. I tend to pair those, again... I know we're talking about nuts and seeds quite a bit here, but I do tend to pair them with, uh, almonds, uh, pumpkin seeds. I add some chia into the mix as well, because that way you are boosting up the protein level of that meal, which again is quite satiating and again can improve weight. Because we know through something called the protein leverage hypothesis, whereby when you consume enough protein at every meal, it improves your satiation signals and you're less likely to overconsume or crave foods mid meals. That way you're, you're less likely to overconsume energy over a 24-hour period. So getting a good amount of protein at every mealtime, again, is another important thing, and you can plug that gap with nuts and seeds too.

Okay. Um, I love marmalade. Um, when my wife allows me, I have marmalade. Now, if I have that for breakfast on some wholemeal toast,

that's gotta be a good start to the day as far as fiber's concerned. That's more of a question than a statement-

Uh, I mean, one thing I would do to improve your marmalade start to the day is mix it up during the week so you're not just having the same thing, so that way-

Yeah

... you're getting diversity. Second thing is, if you were to blend some chia seeds into that marmalade, so it d- shouldn't affect the flavor, but it does boost up your protein and fiber of that marmalade. If you're, if you're not gonna give up your marmalade, and I don't wanna... I'm not in the business of, of telling people to give up everything.

I- well, it is homemade marmalade.

If it's homemade, that's great. Um, and the other thing is topping that as well. So you can top that to give it a little bit of extra texture with some- something like sesame seeds-

Yeah

... or something like sunflower seeds, some of the cheaper seeds out there. You know, that way you're actually boosting the fiber and protein without having to change your marmalade and, you know... And Mike, I, I would never tell you to stop eating your marmalade.

W- what I was trying to get at, actually, was the bread, the wholemeal bread.

Oh, yeah.

The fiber in that.

Yeah, yeah. There are some... There is definitely fiber in wholemeal bread, particularly ones that you've either made yourself or you've gone to a local baker or something like that, where there's, there's love and energy that's been put into it. The issue with a lot of wholemeal breads that you buy in the supermarket is that they can be quite refined. Uh, they have many different preservatives and additives, uh, given to them. They haven't been allowed to, uh, ferment properly, which means that the nutrients are still locked into the grain themselves. So I, I'm a, you know, big proponent of making your own if you can, uh, or buying it from a local baker, um, who has actually, you know, d- put the time and effort into creating a quality product.

Okay. Uh, here's another question, which is probably unfair again, another unfair question. If we take, uh, 'cause you're saying that the, kind of the five fruit and veg probably doesn't supply all the fiber we need. So if we are fairly confident we're getting our five fruit and veg a day, how short are we? So how-

We're pretty short. So on average, even with the five-a-day messaging that's been out since, uh, the 1980s, uh, you know, originated in America and came over to the UK, um, we average around three per day, but the, uh, uh, range is from zero to, to four to five. And so there are some people who literally do not get any fruits and vegetables per day. And w- what we know is if this was to be added to the five-a-day campaign, 63% of people would say they would actually put more nuts and seeds into their diet. So I think that, that again sort of speaks to why this is such an important white paper that's been presented to Parliament by Whitworths, um, as to... A- and the reason as to why, like, it should be part of the five-a-day campaign. Because fruits and vegetables are phenomenal, and if we can get people eating more than five a day, great, but one of the ways in which I think, um, it falls down is because it feels quite unachievable for people, whereas a handful of nuts and seeds is actually a very... I mean-

Yeah

... you're about to start doing it yourself. It's actually a very, uh, easy habit to start.

Tell me about this process, then. Whitworths have presented a white paper to government. So Whitworths, I mean, they're, they're a company that make or sell nuts and seeds, I'm assuming.

Yeah, one of the largest, uh-

Um, what, what... Yeah

... yeah

... what's the, what's the process of influencing... They're lobbying government somehow, and I guess you're helping them. What, what's the process, and how long until, uh, anything might change?

Uh, well, this is a process that's been going on for a number of years, way before I got involved, although there is a lot of alignment because my third book that came out five years ago was all about why nuts, seeds, and dry fruit should be part of the five-a-day campaign.

Oh, give us the name of the book. Plug your book.

Three Two One. It was called Three Two One. But I'm not here to talk about the book. It's, uh, uh, it's done well. Um, the process involves a number of different-

I'm gonna talk about mine. It's fine. Talk about your book.

It's, uh, the process involves, uh, a lot of different bodies. So the, uh, BNF were involved, the A-, uh, the Association for Nutrition, there have been a lot of other, uh, uh, people who are providing commentary on this as well. Because the evidence is stacking up, I mean, people can read the, the white paper for themselves and exactly who was involved, uh, on the Whitworths website, but because the, uh, the, the number of people involved and the evidence stacking up, it's like, it should be a no-brainer. And I think everyone is in the business, as particularly myself, of helping people make better, uh, health choices. And in the knowledge that the Global Burden of Disease study has, has shown us, look, it's not just about taking food away from people, the wrong foods away, it's about introducing the right foods. This is something that I think should be, uh, a, a policy that everyone can get behind.

Good. All right. This is, this is int- interesting stuff, and, uh, I might even be tempted to, um,

try some more nuts and stuff. I- I'm not sure I'm gonna put them on my marmalade in the morning, but who kn- who knows? Never say never.

You should try it. You should try. You never know.

Um,

well, you wanna be careful. I might send you a jar of my marmalade.

I'd like that very much. I mean, we do recipes here at The Doctor's Kitchen every single month, so, you know, we're always experimenting with different- ... preserves and ways of, uh, boosting people's fiber and protein. So yeah, we're, we're, we're up for the challenge.

Okay. Look, Rupy, if people have been listening to this and thinking, "All right, I would like to find out a little bit more, um, do a bit of my own personal sort of, um, reading," can you suggest a, a, a good source that is, has good, simple, balanced information that people can look at?

I mean, I w- I would go to, if you wanna read the white paper, uh, in its entirety and find out exactly who was involved and all the studies that have been quoted and researched and all the sort of process behind the stats we've been talking about today, just go to the Whitworths website and you can find out more. It's on their homepage. Um, and I think if people wanna know a little bit more about, like, how they can, uh, uh, increase nuts and seeds into their diet, there's so many different recipes online as well. But just, if there is one takeaway, a handful of nuts and seeds could do much more for your health than people actually realize. And it's, it's like a multi-tool for your health. It can improve your cholesterol, it can improve inflammation, improve your blood sugar, uh, improve your vascular health, um, and it's a very simple habit to do. So just think about that.

Yeah. That, that sounds like a perfect place to finish. So, uh, Rupy, look, thank you so much for taking the time to chat. Very interesting.

Appreciate it, Mike.

And, uh, yeah, I enjoyed it.

Thanks, Mike.

Thank you very much to my guest on this week's show. That was Dr. Rupy, talking about our diets, and in particular, fiber. Thank to you, thank you to you for listening. And please do remember to check out my book, Cut the Crap: Ask the Questions that Matter About Your Health. That is available on Amazon. And also, if you are suffering from back pain or you're worried about your posture, please do look at my website, relaxbackuk.com, for some information and a chance to try out the Back App chair. It has helped a lot of people. Maybe it could help you. Have a healthy week. Until next week.

Thanks for listening to the Relax Back UK show. Join me, Mike Dilke, again next week for more fascinating interviews and chat. If you're listening to the podcast version, please subscribe, like, and share it with your family and friends. And have a healthy week. Until next week.